P&R I 20c Large Format Cattle

[Rein]

No watermark, symmetrical paper wire, gauge 30/20 threads per cm horizontal/vertical, direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":




The blue lines indicate the symmetrical paper wire.

[Rein]

No watermark, symmetrical paper wire, gauge 30/20 threads per cm horizontal/vertical, direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamp "M":



The blue lines indicate the symmetrical paper wire that is visible at the front as well since this is transposed paper (sin filigrana traspuesta) with the paper wire at the front and the felt side at the gummed back.

[Rein]

After having found the 50c Petroleo with the printing of the colours inverted, I started out looking for the other denominations in bicoloured offset-litho to have similar effects.

I did report the 30c, the 5p and now let us have a look at the 20c Toro:

[Rein]

The base block characteristics are hard to find, we should realize that there were at least 2 plates; the last plate has the design a little bit shrunk - the vertical height not quite 0.5mm smaller!

The first printings - Tela, R.R. difusos and no watermark have a little dot:








all Tela so far!

[Rein]

In the later printings - R.R. Nitidos and parallel watermark with asymmetrical paper mesh [rayado vertical] other characteristics are prominent, though one has been displayed here before by Jorge:







all "rayado vertical", with relatively visible horizontal lines! This is not always the case:

[Rein]

For the base block characteristics of the 2nd plate we have found 4 so far!







all R.R. Nitidos so far!







all parallel watermark with asymmetrical paper mesh [rayado vertical]

[Rein]

Re: Todo lo relacionado con el 20c. Toro grande P y R I

Volviendo al tema de cuales son los papeles que existen, encuentro que los datos en la tabla de Bardi son los correctos:

1942 1E3
1942 (a finales de) 2D RR difusos, colores palidos. Se puede confundir con el Holandes (1E4) pero este ultimo yo opino que no existe.
1945 NGR sin filigrana
1949 2C RR nitidos, colores unicos
1951 1L1 rayado horizontal, colores muy oscuros

saludos

tony

So the 20c Toro grande on Holandés does NOT exist!

[Rein]

This one has at least something that might be called "straight rays"!?




The "feel" is another Pro-Holandés aspect!

[Rein]

The "feel" is another Pro-Holandés aspect!

[Rein]

Rein,

I don't think so. I just looked at 200 or so I am loading up to my books and there is no 1E4. The best way to clear this issue up is to have handy a good selection of the 25c or 50c 1E4. This way works best. The 2D can be confused with the 1E4 but the RA in the 1E4 is gigantic when compared with the 2D RA and the 1E4 is white and fluffy and medium thick where the 2D is grayish flat and slightly thinner.

I think this is a red herring, all 1E4 are from 1940 anyways. The dates of use are key here.

tony

Tony,

I agree that the differences between MI 3, MI 7 and RR 1 are hardly measurable UNLESS you have a stamp with 3 rows of Suns or a long pair or a block of 2x2. In that case you can measure the distance between 2 rows: if 35mm then RR 1, if 30mm then either MI 3 or MI 7!

The 2 copies I displayed have a fluffy surface at the back!

[Rein]

Tony,

this stamp has 3 ROWS of Suns! Vertical distance 30.5mm, whereas RR 1 [and 2] should have 35mm!!!!



This is a DUTCHMAN!

[Rein]

Thanks for this discovery, Rein. Here are the images.

The 20cLC1E4

At first I did not believe it, but here it is. It was 'under my nose' all along. The top row are 2D and the bottom row are 1E4.



2D stamps in more detail





1E4 stamps in more detail

Thanks Tony!

[Rein]

The 20c Toro [Ganaderia] has both B17 (base of the perforator having 17 teeth] and B25, depending on the type of paper!

See for the different perforators: viewtopic.php?f=137&t=5439&p=43453#p43453

Not of all my types of paper I had enough evident material to tell whether we have B17 or B25 at hand!

Of the Symmetrical Orthogonal [Stinnes aka Holandés or 1E4 or MI3] just a single copy:





to be continued ...

[Rein]

Of the Symmetrical Parallel with density 24/22 [Wiggins Teape Tela or 1E3c or MI4]:





to be continued ...

[Rein]

Of the Asymmetrical Orthogonal with vertical intersolar distance 35mm [Pietro Miliani Rayos Rectos Nitidos or 2C or RR2] and B17:





to be continued ...