1922-1970? Multiple Sun + AЯ watermark

[Rein]

Walter Bose has the SAME notions of horizontal and vertical as Hickethier:



Paper A corresponds with series 2 here,



but what was paper A for San Martin with point is paper B now!

Papers D/F and E are the same - Austrian? - with E having the goma rayada!

Walter Bose thinks D-F are all delgado! Hickethier has series 6 to be "grueso"...


Hickethier is the only one referring to the "eje de enrrollamiento" !!!!!!!

A well-kept secret till 2008 when Bardi came around!

to be continued .....

[Rein]

The 5c Postal Congress stamps display a variety of A and Я's - close or not so close! The closed areas of the A and of the Я vary a great deal!




to be continued ...

[Otin]

Rein,
The eje de enrollamiento was also used by our late member M. Varela some 15 years ago when he deswcribed papers of conmemorative stamps of the `50s and 60`s. I don`t know he he knew Hickethier´s work.
On the other hand yesterday I sent you a mail commenting the Dutch paper and watermark of the block of four you illustrated of the %c Primer Congreso Postal Panamericano.. There was something weong with the Foro page as the web, until night, could not be taken by the web. Please confirm.
José

[Rein]

Rein,
The eje de enrollamiento was also used by our late member M. Varela some 15 years ago when he deswcribed papers of conmemorative stamps of the `50s and 60`s. I don`t know he he knew Hickethier´s work.
On the other hand yesterday I sent you a mail commenting the Dutch paper and watermark of the block of four you illustrated of the %c Primer Congreso Postal Panamericano.. There was something weong with the Foro page as the web, until night, could not be taken by the web. Please confirm.
José

José,

I noticed that the Foro was unreachable for quite some time!

Rein says:
Luis, what is going on with the Foro???
zeus says:
The Datacenter are changing a core server

I got your private mail alright... Did you get in touch with Javier???

saludos, Rein

[Rein]

The 5c Postal Congress stamps display a variety of A and Я's - close or not so close! The closed areas of the A and of the Я vary a great deal!




to be continued ...

By the first time I entered in the English section (Shakespeare...) and I can tell you the block of four you show, specially the back, is the best representation of Dutch desgn of wmk Sun RA. In other words, the design is quite irregular, sun in many cases flat or horizontally oblong, letters RA indefined.

This paper when RA is parallel to the short side has a very visible parallel grain, which Bose names paper C, granulado. The one you illustrates is his paper B, and paper A is the one Juso discovered in the 3c San Martín 1917 type.

By the way, I see you realized the question of which paper appeared first; A or B.

Once I see your Weske translation I´ll try to clarify your doubts.

And I thank you very much for now let me know what Weske wrote. Saludos,

José

José,

you want me to translate Weske's article???? From German to English I suppose....

Saludos, Rein

[Rein]

An articel by Gerardo Hickethier published in sequels in the 1930-ies:



to be continued ....

this Gerardo Hickethier list is indeed very interesting but certainly not the FINAL WORD! As I said he does not mention the AЯ and RA differences whereas he should have. Some "series" do only exist in RA [10/1, 10/2) or in AЯ (9/1, 9/2, 10/3) ...

The general problem with this list is the load of details that are the result of a year by year following of this series. I know myself that I was following Dutch definitives month by month between 1982 and 1995. You need to invent a new terminology to describe all the differences and that terminology is not always good enough for others to follow you.... You lose the mainstream as they say by "not seeing the forest through the trees"...

Hickethier is using terms that do not appeal to me or rather I do not know exactly (or at all) what he meant by it... Extremely irritating is his use of filigrana in a horizontal position and the like....

As José Merlo explained horizontal does not refer to the line of AЯ but to the notions of upright or sideways. When a person is standing upright he is vertical, when he is lying in bed he is horizontal so analogically the A is vertical when upright [standing on both feet!]. The horizontal position results in the line of AЯ running parallel to the long side of the JSM stamp [lower values]. This is correct for all the con puntos! Hickethier said the "eje de enrollamiento del papel vertical" which is also true for series 1 !

The series 1-3 are OK and recognizable:

1 = Dutch parallel watermark,
2 = English orthogonal watermark;
3 however is only recognizable as it has a parallel watermark and has RA running parallel to the short side of the stamp!

Interesting here is the description of the letters:

in series 1: con letras volcada hacia uno o otro lado;
in series 3: La "A" de R.A. está achatada al tope, o sea en el ángulo, en lugar ser aguda como en laas series anteriores.

or

in series 1: with letters capsizing towards one or the other side;
in series 3, The "A" of R.A. is flattened at the top, or at an angle, rather than be sharp as in the previous series.

Hickethier is more detailed here than Bose who only says A - letras agudas and C- letras cuadradas!

From what I have seen so far, Bose is WRONG! It is an oversimplification and does NOT help much.... Capsizing A's and flattened A's can be found in more than one type of paper!

Both authors fail to describe the letters in ONE of the 3 types they mention!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

Hickethier's series 3 has 2 values that are rather common and that jump out as they have a parallel watermark with the horizontal direction of paper - the 2c and 5c. A 50c in perforation 13 1/2 is supposed to exist but according to Hickethier it is extremely rare!

What is charactertistic for these 2 values - and Hickethier does NOT mention that is that they ONLY occur with the RA reading form the back!








to be continued....

[Rein]

Of the 2c some letters A are leaning some are flattened but hardly ever unanimously flattened or cuadrada as Bose claimed!!!!











to be continued ...

[Rein]

Of the 5c some letters A are leaning some are flattened but hardly ever unanimously flattened or cuadrada as Bose claimed!!!!



the left letters are cuadrada BUT the right letters are leaning towards the right!









to be continued ...

[Rein]

As said before: Hickethier is a lot more accurate than Bose!

Looking for cuadradas does not make sense as it is rather simple to establish the direction of paper - the rhombic grain being horizontal AND the line of AЯ parallel to the short side of the stamp!!!!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Comparing Hickethier's nomenclature and Bose's:

Series 1 = Bose's B [con punto]
Series 2 = Bose's A [only con punto, sin punto not known by Hickethier?!]
Series 3 and 3/1 = Bose's C [con punto and sin punto]

to be continued ....

[Rein]

An article by Gerardo Hickethier published in sequels in the 1930-ies:



to be continued ....

Series 3/1 = Bose's C

Series 4 = ????

Series 5 is like series 1 = Dutch parallel watermark = Bose's B [sin punto]

Series 6 and 7 are Austrian orthogonal watermark without [6] or with broken gum [7].

Hickethier said "eje de enrollamiento" is vertical! This seems unlikely to me!! The "eje de enrollamiento" is horizontal and runs parallel to the short side of the stamp [lower values]..... For the peso values [without broken gum] everything turned 90 degrees...

to be continued ....

[Rein]

Rein,

Thanks. Nº 109 is not in my library but it is in SOFIRA`s.

By now I can tell you wmk A was supplied by Wiggins. I got a sample from CdM but not from the transparent` paper with wmk B, which has two versions: plain and your hated "grené". I´ll give more details when I continue my interrupted reply.
José

I have the feeling still that the English paper with the orthogonal watermark - Bose's A, Hickethier 2 - has a much wider range of use than we know!

I think it can be found in 1925 with broken gum!!! Next to the presumably Austrian paper!

I do not like the terms grené nor granulado and certainly not their artificially different meanings.... They are all part of the plain weave or symmetrical paper meshes and the only variety in that is due to the density of the wires: 30/18, 30/20, 30/16, 24/22 etc... How we see the grain / rhombos in our stamps is influenced by other aspects of the paper pulp and it ranges from not visible at all to very clear indents as we see in the Zárate paper [with or without watermark!]...

[Rein]

The 1925 Goma Rayada - supposedly Austrian paper that was delivered all gummed by the paper mills without sticking to the required specifications and hence had to have the gum broken mechanically....

This may be one the Argentina philatelic urban legends as it looks like there was more than one type of paper with this broken gum! Probably even English!









to be continued ....

[Rein]

Especially the 20c is so typical for the English paper with the letter A and Я joined at the bottom! Plus the hill in the middle of the intersolar join!

to be continued ....