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Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 05 Nov 2011 22:17
por Otin
Guillermo and Rein:
Have you noticed the "grilled" background in the 10c chesnut Rivadavia perfin? (In other ohiti too) I understand this effect is provoked by the strucuture of paper that altered the felt side, enhanced by or during the coating process. I would like to hear your opinions as this effect is very common but up to now no one have commented it. I know it for years. Saludos,
José
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 05 Nov 2011 22:17
por Otin
Guillermo and Rein:
Have you noticed the "grilled" background in the 10c chesnut Rivadavia perfin? (In other ohiti too) I understand this effect is provoked by the strucuture of paper that altered the felt side, enhanced by or during the coating process. I would like to hear your opinions as this effect is very common but up to now no one have commented it. I know it for years. Saludos,
José
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 05 Nov 2011 22:17
por Otin
Guillermo and Rein:
Have you noticed the "grilled" background in the 10c chesnut Rivadavia perfin? (In other ohiti too) I understand this effect is provoked by the strucuture of paper that altered the felt side, enhanced by or during the coating process. I would like to hear your opinions as this effect is very common but up to now no one have commented it. I know it for years. Saludos,
José
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 05 Nov 2011 22:17
por Otin
Guillermo and Rein:
Have you noticed the "grilled" background in the 10c chesnut Rivadavia perfin? (In other ohiti too) I understand this effect is provoked by the strucuture of paper that altered the felt side, enhanced by or during the coating process. I would like to hear your opinions as this effect is very common but up to now no one have commented it. I know it for years. Saludos,
José
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 05 Nov 2011 22:17
por Otin
Guillermo and Rein:
Have you noticed the "grilled" background in the 10c chesnut Rivadavia perfin? (In other ohiti too) I understand this effect is provoked by the strucuture of paper that altered the felt side, enhanced by or during the coating process. I would like to hear your opinions as this effect is very common but up to now no one have commented it. I know it for years. Saludos,
José
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 06 Nov 2011 05:12
por Rein
José,
are you referring to the "screen"?
There are other possibliies!
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 07 Nov 2011 13:35
por CastañoOcre
Merlo,
¿O usted se refiere a esto? Es un efecto tipo "parrilla" que ocurre en sólo algunos sellos. Lo curioso es que no sólo puede verse en los sellos 10c. Rivadavia marrones sino tambien en los 10c. Rivadavia rojos. Aunque claro está, los rojos no son tizados.
Or do you mean this? It's a grill effect that occurs in only a few stamps. The odd thing is that not only can be seen in 10c._Rivadavia_chestnut brown but also in the reds. Although, the 10c._Rivadavia_red aren't coated.
grill 10c chestnut brown.png
HJLYN.png
Guillermo
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 11 Nov 2011 15:12
por Rein
Guillermo,
when you describe the 10c red reel-fed type II pay attention to the following:
G+dot in position 2 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L1, L2 and R4
A+dot underneath [3rd A] in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L3, L5, R1, R2, R3, R8 and R9
+>>>> A+dot right next of it in position 1 in the short rows [5 stamps]: R5, L6, L9 and L10
10+dot in 0 in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L4, R7 and R10
where L1 are the stamps 1-5; R1 = 6-10; L2 = 11-15, R2 =16-20, etc...
I haven't found characteristics for R6, L7 and L8 yet...
I have a complete sheet of 10x10 WITHOUT a plate number!
saludos, Rein
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 11 Nov 2011 15:16
por Rein
Guillermo,
when you describe the 10c red reel-fed type II pay attention to the following:
=>>>>G+dot in position 2 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L1, L2 and R4
A+dot underneath [3rd A] in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L3, L5, R1, R2, R3, R8 and R9
A+dot right next of it in position 1 in the short rows [5 stamps]: R5, L6, L9 and L10
10+dot in 0 in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L4, R7 and R10
where L1 are the stamps 1-5; R1 = 6-10; L2 = 11-15, R2 =16-20, etc...
I haven't found characteristics for R6, L7 and L8 yet...
I have a complete sheet of 10x10 WITHOUT a plate number!
saludos, Rein
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 00:53
por Otin
Guillermo:
Veo que Ud. me tomó "al vuelo". Efectivamente me refiero al efecto parrilla muy notorio en el Rivadavia marrón, pero confieso que no lo había notado en el rojo, lo que me hace cambiar de idea respecto a su causa, es decir lado del fieltro encapado y alterado por algún motivo. Habrá que ver que puede hacer aparecer ese efecto reticulado en el clisé. Me patece que vamos a tener una larga conversación sobre el tema allá en MVD con los sellos en mano. Saludos,
Merlo
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 04:52
por Rein
Otin escribió:Guillermo:
Veo que Ud. me tomó "al vuelo". Efectivamente me refiero al efecto parrilla muy notorio en el Rivadavia marrón, pero confieso que no lo había notado en el rojo, lo que me hace cambiar de idea respecto a su causa, es decir lado del fieltro encapado y alterado por algún motivo. Habrá que ver que puede hacer aparecer ese efecto reticulado en el clisé. Me patece que vamos a tener una larga conversación sobre el tema allá en MVD con los sellos en mano. Saludos,
Merlo
José,
I very much doubt whether this effect has anything to do with the paper! The screen in the 10c chestnut-brown has different densities which I will show you later.
It does not occur in other stamps - 10c red to a minor degree - and should have occured in the 5c Moreno or the 1c Sarmiento. We do see sopmething like that in the 1959 Animals!
Rein» 25 Apr 2009 11:23 escribió:Luis,
At long last I have got a stamp very similar to the one you showed!
Indeed the stamp has been printed in typography but the superfluous ink on the cylinder - it looks like this stamp has been printed on the reel-fed rotary and not the sheet-fed press - might have been wiped off by a brush and not a doctor's blade. In typography the to be printed parts of the design are sticking out so any doctor's blade can only be desctructive. But de Casa de Moneda has a long tradition of deforming the design of typographed stamps! How come the Post Office has accepted that for such a long time!
The "normal" typographed Puma:
the "striped" [rayado] typographed Puma:
The discolouring of this stamp - it is rather orange than yellow-ochre - has probably been caused by chemical sources or overdisposure to sunlight???
Rein» 16 Jul 2009 19:56 escribió:How these stripes come about is or was a complete riddle to me....
However, I begin to suspect that it has to do with the way of inking of the typography cylinders. I will soon show a few 10c Rivadavia brown stamps with the horizontal lines screened!
In studying the 10c Rivadavia for repetitive characteristics I found the same "plate" or cylinder with or without the screened horizontal lines, so the screening must have some other reason!
So far , the only thing I can think of is the scraping of the ink from the ink rolls by some brush??
to be continued ....
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 08:48
por CastañoOcre
Congratulations!
Good job!
I haven't 10c Rivadavia red sheets, even one yet!
Must say that the nomenclature used by Rein is that L meant left and R right. Just like this:
L1(01-05) - R1(06-10)
L2(11-15) - R2(16-20)
L3(21-25) - R1(26-30)
L4(31-35) - R2(36-40)
L5(41-45) - R1(46-50)
L6(51-55) - R2(56-60)
L7(61-65) - R1(66-70)
L8(71-75) - R2(76-80)
L9(81-85) - R1(86-90)
L10(91-95) - R2(96-100)
Guillermo,
when you describe the 10c red reel-fed type II pay attention to the following:
=>>>>G+dot in position 2 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L1, L2 and R4
A+dot underneath [3rd A] in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L3, L5, R1, R2, R3, R8 and R9
A+dot right next of it in position 1 in the short rows [5 stamps]: R5, L6, L9 and L10
10+dot in 0 in position 5 in the short rows [5 stamps]: L4, R7 and R10
where L1 are the stamps 1-5; R1 = 6-10; L2 = 11-15, R2 =16-20, etc...
I haven't found characteristics for R6, L7 and L8 yet...
Guillermo
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 08:58
por CastañoOcre
Merlo,
It's a rare effect... no doubt. Both you are Rein have your criteria about the reasons. Humbly, I haven't yet!!
Thought it was a known issue, in fact... I had a mistake here.
Rein states it had diffent densities and that has nothing to do with papers.
I will study a bit this matter... because at glance I considered it was a paper factor because of the texture.
Let's see that! See you soon.
Guillermo
Otin escribió:Guillermo:
Veo que Ud. me tomó "al vuelo". Efectivamente me refiero al efecto parrilla muy notorio en el Rivadavia marrón, pero confieso que no lo había notado en el rojo, lo que me hace cambiar de idea respecto a su causa, es decir lado del fieltro encapado y alterado por algún motivo. Habrá que ver que puede hacer aparecer ese efecto reticulado en el clisé. Me patece que vamos a tener una larga conversación sobre el tema allá en MVD con los sellos en mano. Saludos,
Merlo
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 10:09
por Rein
CastañoOcre escribió:Congratulations!
Good job!
I haven't 10c Rivadavia red sheets, even one yet!
Must say that the nomenclature used by Rein is that L meant left and R right. Just like this:
L1(01-05) - R1(06-10)
L2(11-15) - R2(16-20)
L3(21-25) - R1(26-30)
L4(31-35) - R2(36-40)
L5(41-45) - R1(46-50)
L6(51-55) - R2(56-60)
L7(61-65) - R1(66-70)
L8(71-75) - R2(76-80)
L9(81-85) - R1(86-90)
L10(91-95) - R2(96-100)
Guillermo
Guillermo,
I should have said L= left and R= right...
Which makes it:
L1(01-05) - R1(06-10)
L2(11-15) - R2(16-20)
L3(21-25) - R3(26-30)
L4(31-35) - R4(36-40)
L5(41-45) - R5(46-50)
L6(51-55) - R6(56-60)
L7(61-65) - R7(66-70)
L8(71-75) - R8(76-80)
L9(81-85) - R9(86-90)
L10(91-95) - R10(96-100)
And as there is no plate or pannel number- the cylinder consists of two pannels of 10x10 - I do not know whether the 2nd sheet has the same lay-out!?
saludos, Rein
Re: P&R I 10c Rivadavia Red
Publicado: 12 Nov 2011 10:14
por Rein
The bottom left part of a sheet of 10x10 of the 10c Rivadavia red type II reel-fed printing on the Goebel press.
to be continued ...
