Foro de Filatelia Argentina

rubiera escribió:
No encuentro estas variedades repetidas, por lo cual por ahora las considero curiosidades.


Curiosidades de plancha del 10c Rivadavia Rojo Tipo II

Tony,

this is what I think goes with the stereotyping of the plates/cylinders according to Tenorio Casal! It has not got anything to do with a repetitive characteristic....!?

rubiera escribió:10c Rivadavia Rojo Tipo II Variedad de Plancha No. 2

Tony,

How many plates have been documented? 1 or 2 or more?? And how to recognize them???

Tony,

another problem to establish repetitive characteristiscs is that - as I showed in the 5c Moreno - there are characteristics that probably occur in a particular columns every alternate row!

Rein,

That is the case. The type I plate was populated in blocks of ten, and each block has two plate varieties that are found throughout the plate.

From a previous post of mine:

http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... ro-005.htm

---------------------

Este es el caso. La plancha del sello tipo I fue construida en bloques de diez, y cada bloque tiene dos variedades de plancha.

De un hilo anterior mio:

http://www.somestamps.com/domain-argent ... ro-005.htm


saludos

tony

Tony,

apart from this repetitive character did you notice signs of stereotyping in the 10c type I?

According to Tenorio Casal this should not be the case, but as I showed it in my post I'd rather think they used stereotyping already for type I!

Rein,

My knowledge of printing is limited, but I have always considered the Type I as a typographed stamp of some kind, not offset. If Type I is longer, then it must be printed on a rotary press, and that means Type II was printed on a flat press (well, at least the short ones I have shown, it seems that there may be long Type II's and then we have a second rotary printing). Tenorio mentions a third type of printing in 1938.

Tengo conocimiento limitado de como son impresos los sellos, pero siempre he cosiderado el Tipo I como algun tipo de tipografiado, no de offset. Si el Tipo I es mas largo, esto debe significar que fue impreso metodo rotativo, y esto significa que el tipo II corto fue impreso en plancha lisa (bueno, al menos los cortos que yo muestro, si existen tipo II largos, entonces tenemos otro rotativo). Tenorio menciona un tercer tipo impreso en 1938.

saludos

tony

Tony,

the 10c Rivadavia red is definitely TYPOGRAPHY (all types) not offset-litho!

Tenorio mentions 3 plates for the "tipograficas" - type I, type II and type II and apart from that 11 printings of the "estereotipadas". How many curved plates/cylinders had been made for the Goebel reel-fed printed stamps??? Stereotyping was supposed to be rather cheap so when a cylinder got worn out a new one was easily made.... Probably!

We should measure the design sizes a lot better than we have done before and also have a good look at the perforations. Everything is 13.33:13.16 16/20, but the "correction teeth" - a thinner or thicker one occuring at the left, right, top or bottom tells us more about the stamp originating from a reel-fed machine. Teeth at the left or right can NOT originate from a rotary with a in-line perforator!

rubiera escribió:Rein,

If Type I is longer, then it must be printed on a rotary press, and that means Type II was printed on a flat press (well, at least the short ones I have shown, it seems that there may be long Type II's and then we have a second rotary printing). Tenorio mentions a third type of printing in 1938.

Si el Tipo I es mas largo, esto debe significar que fue impreso metodo rotativo, y esto significa que el tipo II corto fue impreso en plancha lisa (bueno, al menos los cortos que yo muestro, si existen tipo II largos, entonces tenemos otro rotativo). Tenorio menciona un tercer tipo impreso en 1938.

saludos

tony

Tony,

type I had been printed on a sheet-fed press and perforated on a separate perforator. The size/length hasn't got nothing to do with it.

As I mentioned before. Short or thick teeth at the top or the bottom indicate reel-fed printing! The term "rotary" (or "rotativo") only refers to the cylindrical printing form that can be used in a reel-fed press and a sheet-fed press as well!

Tony,

did we agree that the typographed 5c Moreno and 10c Rivadavia red show characteristics that are repetitive in alternate rows? This goes for tiny dots or even some bigger irregular shapes. The basic element measures 10 stamps that get repeated to make up a sheet.

01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05

but then comes the next reproduction step with 50 stamps!?

01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
01 02 03 04 05

as I can see - 5c Moreno in my post - that there is duplicate immediately underneath each other!

It may be interesting to describe the dots or patterns and establish in which vertical columns they occur!

Tony,

I did expect the offset-litho printed stamps to have something like the typographed Statesmen with repetitive characteristics - they do NOT have to be spectacular, they are rather not spectacular but the very repetitive pattern is what counts here!

I have a few parts of sheets [5x4 at the largest] of the 30c with Ministerials and I found the repetition to be horizontal [as the 30c is landscape!] and alternate. If the basic element also measures 10 stamps it may be as follows:

01 06 01 06 01
02 07 02 07 02
03 08 03 08 03
04 09 04 09 04
05 10 05 10 05

???

Furthermore I found 2 tiny dot patterns that occur in every stamp! In the Ministerials but also in the later no-watermarks and the Rayos Rectos!

The red and the green indicated dots repeat alternately; the blue ones are in every stamp!



The dot belongs to the back-ground colour:



The slash belongs to the back-ground colour:

En estas comparaciones encuentro que el Tipo I es el largo, y el Tipo II es el corto. No encuentro ningun Tipo II largo!



Con los bordes de hoja:





El 'Servicio Oficial' es Typo II.

Tony,

still Tenorio maintains that 3 plates of the "tipograficas" exist! The first I understood being type I, the later 2 being type II. After that / Simulteneously the stereotyped plates had been made for the Goebel reel-fed printing which show the vertical bars at the bottom margin.

Can you show us a picture of a complete sheet??? Both of type I and type II

Rein

Then there is no Type II of the same height as the Type I, and the three types are the ones shown here with their respective selvage. About the 30c, here is the content of an earlier post (august of 2008):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Entonces quedamos en que las tres planchas son las que he mostrado aqui con bordes de hoja y el Tipo II no existe largo como el Typo I.

Encuentro una variedad que ha primera vista parece pertencer al color del fondo, pero con sellos a mano desplazados he determinado que es una variedad al marco, y me parece es una variedad a uno de los cliches usados para producir la plancha por lo comun que la encuentro.





Lo encuentro facilmente en los 1E1 de 1936.

Tony,

this is great!

The bow of dots at the top right corner? In which horizontal row does it occur???