Servicio Oficial or S. Oficial - How many types???

[Rein]

Aquí les hago una ampliación de los sellos 4 y 5 para que, espero, puedan notar la diferencia:

Bloque 3 Puma.jpg

También podrán observar la variedad que solo la tiene el sello 4 de la plancha (en circulo rojo).
De paso les adjunto otras lindas piecitas del mismo valor:





Hasta la vista baby.
Fredy

Ferdy,

I still do not believe in any double impression as far as offset-litho is concerned! There can have been vibrations in the contact between the paper sheet and the rubber cylinder containing the ink!

Another possibility is the flow of ink as in the case of photogravure and rotary recess where quite often the ink can be seen flowing in the direction of printing! This is overnormal with photogravure! Why not in offset-litho! The example you gave of the yellow-brown ink is perfect! Whereas the "OFIC" does NOT show either the double impression nor the ink flow, but the overprint of the puma over the text! Although it does not explain the elliptical centres of the "C" or "O" The outline of the "C" should have been prolonged vertically in the case of double impression or ink flow.....

saludos, Rein

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing R:







to be continued ..

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing L:







to be continued ..

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing R:







Pay attention to the blue doctor blade's lines!

to be continued ..

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing L:








to be continued ..

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing R:







to be continued ..

[Rein]

Type VIII exists ONLY in photogravure!!!!!

Its length is 23 1/2mm

Direction of printing L:







to be continued ..

[Rein]

So far we have seen only THREE types of S.O. in photogravure!

- type VIII 1p, 3p and 5p
- type XI just the 10p
- type XIII quite some values!

All the stamps with the S.O. in photogravure CANNOT have a double impression and also an inverted S.O. can only have been produced by invertedly mounting BOTH cylinders! In that case at least 1 complete printing sheet should have been produced if not a few hundred just before you could stop the machine!

ALL inverted S.O. as allegedly rare stamps are HIGHLY suspected if not fakes!

Double impressions are either a misinterpretation of the printing or fake! See G. J. 3p [717a] or 23p [757a]

to be continued ....

[Rein]

The existence of bicoloured photogravure for the Argentina S.O. stamps is still a matter of greatest doubt for Argentina experts! Will we ever see an archival statement from the Casa de Moneda???

Doctor blade's flaw - lines - do not occur in the case of offset-litho! it is a typical feature of photogravure and occasionally recess printing.







See the screened spots here!











What do I need to show more?????

to be continued ....

[Rein]

The differences between type III and type VII are - according to Victor Kneitschel - the size of the characters and the openness of the "C"!?



Type III:









Type VII:





to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type III vs VII:






The horizontal strokes of the "E" and the "F" have lowered.... And indeed the "C" is more closed.

to be continued ...

[jorgec]

All the stamps with the S.O. in photogravure CANNOT have a double impression and also an inverted S.O. can only have been produced by invertedly mounting BOTH cylinders! In that case at least 1 complete printing sheet should have been produced if not a few hundred just before you could stop the machine!

ALL inverted S.O. as allegedly rare stamps are HIGHLY suspected if not fakes!

Fake overprint in photogravure ? That would be very unlikely. Forgers normally don't have access to photogravure printing.

Anyway, most of these inverted stamps are not extremely rare. And even if a whole sheet (or several sheets) were originally printed, the number of stamps that actually survived could be much smaller. In some cases, I guess, they destroyed the "wrong" printing, but somebody kept a small amount for intentionally selling to collectors.

Double impressions are either a misinterpretation of the printing or fake! See G. J. 3p [717a] or 23p [757a]

You are judging something as fake without ever seeing it? Doesn't sound as a very responsible post from an expert. You may say you are suspicious, but first check the stamps before any hard conclusions.

[Rein]

Jorge,

I do not feel like getting into polemics with you! Show me a double impression of these photogravure S.O. stamps and let us then discuss!

Last year there were some interesting scans Augusto Nieva made, the discussion about them led to nowhere it seems....

Subject: Patrones en sobrecarga tipo XIII

A ver si entiendo la teoría de Augusto, sólo para clarificar:
Para aplicar la sobrecarga XIII se utilizó el mismo cilindro (¿?) en todos los sellos que llevan dicha sobrecarga, o al menos hasta que se rompió. Por lo tanto tendríamos que encontrar estos defectos en todos los sellos que posean sobrecarga XIII. Fredy no ahorra el trabajo diciendo las posiciones en las cuales encontramos la variedad en los sellos verticales, teniendo que deducir para los sellos horizontales o con sobrecarga hacia abajo.
Desde mi punto de vista cómo lector, en los sellos de formatos "grandes" se daría esta situación si seguimos la teoría Augustuniana:
1 P girasol,, 2 P Sarmiento, 3 P Cuesta de Zapata, 4 y 6 P Hernandez, 10 P puente del Inca, 20 P Nahuel Huapi, 23 y 25 P Quebracho colorado, 43 y45 P Industria, 50 P San Martin y 90 P Brown.

Pero por supuesto, esto es lo que entendí, que no tiene or qué ser verdad.

Saludos

I came to the same conclusion as Augusto and the existence of just ONE cylinder for the Type XIII in photogravure is not so bad!

The S.O. type XIII for the 1p Girasol with S.O. in the centre is NOT in photogravure but in offset-litho and therefor a double impression i.e the sheet went through the press TWO times is not impossible and should reult in at least a full counter sheet. The lay-out of the 1p Girasol was probably quite different from the later 1p Girasol as the direction of printng was U [ink flowing upwards] contrasting with direction of printing L or R [portrait size] OR U(p) or D(own) [landscape size] for the other values mentioned above.

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Subject: Patrones en sobrecarga tipo XIII

Siguiendo con mi análisis al montón de "oficiales" que poseo hace mucho tiempo y nunca le di importancia, he encontrado cierto patrón en la sobrecarga tipo XIII que me gustaría compartir para saber cuan raro es:

1er patrón: la "A" de OFICIAL tiene un punto en su vértice superior (lo encontré en 3 sellos) y

2do patrón: antes de la "S" aparece un punto a media altura. (lo encontré en 2 sellos)

Como "yapa", en el 1er sello del 2do patrón aparecen unas fallas en la impresión del sello que afectan a la sobrecarga (la sobrecarga se "corta" al encontrar el pliegue original del sello). Se observa que un pliegue corta a la "I" y a la "A" de OFICIAL y a una flor, otro pliegue afecta a la otra flor y hay otro pliegue paralelo al tallo.

De esto último me acabo de dar cuenta al escanear el sello y con una lupa de mucho aumento se observa perfecto en fenómeno.

The 3 stamps at the bottom are all in photogravure!

But how about the 1p Girasol with S.O. centred???? Offset-litho or photogravure??? Or do both exist???

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Vamos por partes, como dijo el viejo Jack.
Para no confundirnos, diría que los sellos que menciona la bandera son medianos (Chicos San Martín 2, 4, 8 y 10 pesos; y grandes Bariloche, San Martín de 50).
Ejemplos:



Luego decimos que las sobrecargas Tipo XIII se imprimieron en los sistemas offset y huecograbado. Descartemos los sellos chicos porque no vi acentos ni comillas en ellos y los grandes porque no tienen esa sobrecarga.
Entonces, se puede afirmar que esas variedades se dan en los sellos tamaño mediano cuya sobrecarga se imprimió en huecograbado. Las he visto en los valores 1p Girasol, 5p Riqueza Austral, 10p Puente del Inca, 25p Quebracho (roja), 45p Industria.
Aquí algunas comillas:



En al caso de los acentos, encuentro dos tipos: Uno con la mancha sobre el ángulo de la letra A y otro con el acento al lado.
Vayan estos ejemplos:



Otro en sello apaisado:



Lo que no he podido determinar es si los acentos a) y b) ocupan la misma posición en las planchas.
Espero se entienda, sino, como dice Mr. Rein: to be continued...
Fredy

to be continued ....