Foro de Filatelia Argentina

zeus25971 escribió:
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Luego, una variedad que pareceria ser repetitiva y bastante común, punto en el marco superior.


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Luis,

this is NOT a variety! It is the characteristic of type II of the 5p Tierra del Fuego!

type I:



type II:



to be continued ...

zeus25971 escribió:
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Primero el mas vistoso, una parejita doble impresion:



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Luis,

I am just judging from the scan shown, with a finer detail I may get to a different conclusion, but it seems to me that there are "shadows" everywhere at the right side of each character...



to be continued ...

As mentioned in a previous posting:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1312&hilit=606

The 5p has had at least 2 cylinders:

- the long axis of the stamp along the circumference of the cylinder for the sheet-fed Mailander - direction of printing either to the left OR to the right
- the short axis of the stamp along the circumference of the cylinder for the sheet-fed Mailander - direction of printing either to the top OR to the bottom

So far I have seen type I with both L and R; but type II only with the ink flowing to the top!

to be continued ...

The type II of the 5p Tierra del Fuego!

type II:





All with the so-called "blando" or the imported paper from Germany [Kupferschmidt] with orthogonal watermark and symmetrical paper mesh!

to be continued ...

In type II a 3rd cylinder must have been made that got used for the coated paper and that has a direction of printing towards the left:






to be continued ...

Having acquired a lot of 5p stamps recently I dare to say that even the elaborated catalogization by Bardi is far from correct! The very fact that he didn't recognize the 3 types made it even worse....

to be continued ....

Distinguishing ZA 2 and ZA 4 in the P& R II series is useless!! Bardi just used it to keep his "m" and ""M" apart! Otherwise there is no difference in whiteness.....

TYPE 1 - with the upper left corner complete [!] exists with both directions of paper or lines of AЯ if that is easier to remember.....

TYPE 2 - with the upper left corner missing has much more types of paper than is mentioned here!

to be continued ...

Remember that for this stamp the pliego bears two 100 stamp panes in tete beche positions. And I can tell you that there are more than two cylinders used for it. One month ago I have in my hands in CdM the printing proofs of them. Saludos,
José

Otin escribió:Remember that for this stamp the pliego bears two 100 stamp panes in tete beche positions. And I can tell you that there are more than two cylinders used for it. One month ago I have in my hands in CdM the printing proofs of them. Saludos,
José

José,

you have to bear in mind the three types!!!!

What you say about the two tête-bêche panes only goes for the type I! Direction of printing L and R [as seen from the individual stamp] due to this tête-bêche lay-out!

For type II there are two cylinders! One with the printing vertically - ink flowing upwards - i.e. the printing cylinder had the axis parallel to the long side of the stamp; the second cylinder had the axis parallel to the short side of the stamp! Just as the cylinder of type I

Type III was only used on the Goebel! Directions of printing both L and R which could be like the lay-out for type I however I haven't heard of the Goebel using broad [double-width] cylinder....

saludos, Rein

Rein,
I´m afraid your statement is not correct. all the pliegos I saw have the same size bearing two panes in a horizontal position, that is paralell by the long side of the stamp. Should it be as you say, there should be sheet/panes paralell by the short side
pf the stamp.
José

Otin escribió:Rein,
I´m afraid your statement is not correct. All the pliegos I saw have the same size bearing two panes in a horizontal position, that is paralell by the long side of the stamp. Should it be as you say, there should be sheet/panes paralell by the short side of the stamp.
José

José,

the printing sheet lay-out could be as you said, but with different positions on the cylinders!

Several cylinders:

- no 1 for type I - cylinder axis parallel to the short side of the stamp thus resulting in L and/or R
- no 2 for type II - cylinder axis parallel to the short side of the stamp thus resulting in L
- no 3 for type II - cylinder axis parallel to the long side of the stamp thus resulting in U
- no 4 for type III [GOEBEL] - cylinder axis parallel to the short side of the stamp thus resulting in L and/or R

In the case of cylinder 1 the printing sheet lay-out was - two counter-sheets of 10x10 one above the other with stamps in their natural landscape position!

10x10
=====
10x10

In the case of cylinder 4 there was just ONE lay-out - counter sheet covers the complete GOEBEL-cylinder - and the two directions of printing are the result of a different mounting of the cylinder into the presss!

saludos, Rein

And to recall:

Fredy 28.04.2011 » 10:16 escribió:
Hola amigos.
Reforzando un poco la idea que presenta José (Otin), encontré en el sitio de Guillermo Jalil esta piecita que me parece nos aclara por qué hay "corridas" de tintas para un lado y para otro.
Miren esta imagen:


Esto nos da la pauta que las planchas pasaron en un sólo sentido y que hubo un único cilindro impresor. Al cortar el pliego por el medio, queda la sensación que fueron impresas dos planchas por separado si tenemos en cuanta el corrimiento de la tinta, pero evidentemente no sucedió asi.
Espero que esto aclare algunos comentarios y teorías que en distintos posteos se han vertido sobre el tema.
Saludos.


Fredy

Fredy,

this is more or less what José suggested! It explains the existence of both directions of printing- L and R - in more or less the same period!
Nevertheless there is a second cylinder with the direction of printing B [ink flowing upwards]!!!!! Notwithstanding the existence of an even different type of design in the case of the 5p!

In the PYR series it is quite common to have more than one cylinder - among them at least one having a tete-beche lay-out!

saludos, Rein

to be continued ...

Otin escribió:Rein: I hope you like this variety. As you can see it´s a typical doctor´s blade vibration. If you have seen a copy before please let me know.
José



Cuchilla vibrada

Muchachos: Gracias a la ayuda de un amigo que sabe cómo escanear, les envío esta linda variedad, consistente en las líneas oscuras verticales producidas por la recleta que vibró durante la impresión. Si conocían esta variedad antes por favor díganmelo.
Merlo

hector78 » Yesterday 21:24 escribió:
Estimado Merlo yo tengo este sellito me parece que es parecido al que Usted muestra, lo tengo montado en mi coleccion de automóviles



Hector

José and Hector!

thanks!

It is a GOEBEL print! Nice , very nice vibration!

saludos, Rein

Thanks Rein !!!!

Héctor