Foro de Filatelia Argentina

There is not much to be found here in this Foro about the 12p Quebracho...

What we can find at Holler's is quite simple:

- mate nactional photogravure issued 31.10.1962
- mate nacional offset-litho issued in July 1964

That's a all!

In D. Bardi's book we will find that the mate nacional has to be split up in granulado and rayado! And we may find long lines inside the paper....

There is no information about the printing process details nor possible plate flaws...

to be continued ..

Rein:
Can you be more specific about the "long lines insidde the paper"?
José

Rein:
Can you be more specific about the "long lines insidde the paper"?
José

The 12p with the so-called Zárate Combinado '62 [according to C.R. Gomez]:

Orthogonal watermark, direction of paper horizontal , asymmetrical paper wire structure, coarse screen:





extra horizontal lines parallel to the direction of paper, mainly visible from the back, but at times also visible from the front!





to be continued ...

What is NEW and has not been published as far as I know is the existence of TWO types of photogravure screens
- a coarse one [80 limes/cm] and a fine one [100 lines/cm]:

Coarse screen:



Fine screen:



Often best seen by the outer frame line: one dot wide or one and a half till two!



to be continued ...

To get a rough idea of what the Zárate papers look like:



Asymmetrical paper wire structure!



Symmetrical paper wire structure:



to be continued ..

All with coarse screen:



to be continued ...

It hardly ever occurs that we can prove that a plate flaw is not a plate flaw!!!

In the steps before we have a ready cylinder we have the phase that all images are gathered on a diapositive film! When somehow a scratch gets on that film we will normally never find out that this happened on the film and not on the cylinder!

Thanks to the fact that the 12p exists with TWO different screens - a coarse one with 80 lines/cm and a fine one with 100 lines/cm we are lucky to see this:



Three (3) times with a fine screen:







Coarse screen:



to be continued ...

Dario Bardi distinguished the following types of paper:



The FT is not really a type of paper but the result of misled sheets BEFORE gummng. The c/fil Raya vert. is something that is supposed to occur several times across the width of a paper reel and is NOT a type of paper in itself just as a plate flaw is not a type of stamp itself... The invisible is too easy a cop-out as for most collectors watermarks as such are hardly visible ...

What is left is the following:

for photogravure

ZA 2 m with a variation in thickness
ZA 4 M
ZA 5 M

for offset-litho

ZA 2 m
ZA 4 M

in my offset-litho stamps the two directions of paper occur almost equally often with a slight predominance for the vertical direction of paper [m]. To call one Blanco and the other not is also exaggerating!

to be continued ...

So far I have seen and studied almost 1500 photogravure 12p stamps!

The distribution in rough numbers:

- circa 1000 copies - Zárate uncoated, vertical direction of paper, coarse screen [D.A. Bardi - ZA 2 - 0.10]
- circa 300 copies - Zárate uncoated, horizontal direction of paper, coarse screen [D.A. Bardi - ZA 5 - 0.30]
- circa 200 copies - Zárate uncoated, vertical direction of paper, fine screen [D.A. Bardi - ZA 2 - 0.10]

and

- 1 (one) copy - Zárate uncoated, horizontal direction of paper, fine screen [D.A. Bardi - ZA 4 - 1.00]

The assigned price for the ZA 4 must be much, much too low....

to be continued ...

Rein,
You have done quite an investigation on the 12pesos stamp and it should be taken seriously by specialists!!! The existence of a fine screen and a coarse one was unknown to me, And I also must confess it´s the first time i see the paper with those paralell lines.
The raya vertical wmk was provoked by strings they added along the endless wires to stop and/or avoid splits in the forming paper. A best explanation exists and was done by an enginnier thta went to Zárate plant to see the origin of that "raya vertical"
Congratulations.
José

Rein,
You have done quite an investigation on the 12pesos stamp and it should be taken seriously by specialists!!! The existence of a fine screen and a coarse one was unknown to me, And I also must confess it´s the first time i see the paper with those paralell lines.
The raya vertical wmk was provoked by strings they added along the endless wires to stop and/or avoid splits in the forming paper. A best explanation exists and was done by an enginnier thta went to Zárate plant to see the origin of that "raya vertical"
Congratulations.
José

Congratulations Rein.

Sometimes scratches may look like damages to you! But be careful as they may be true gems as plate flaws!!


















The tree has a characteristic of his own!

Is there any restriction as to how long a plate flaw is allowed to be

to be continued ...

Sometimes scratches may look like damages to you! But be careful as they may be true gems as plate flaws!!

















Is there any restriction as to how long a plate flaw is allowed to be

to be continued ...