Foro de Filatelia Argentina

Another rather less complicated stamp of the P&R II series!



to be continued ....

According to Holler it is extremely easy! Either offset-litho or photogravure!

Bardi makes it us quite difficult!



The Tizado Nacional has ONLY 3 options where TN 1 and TN 2 both have Rayado Horizontal but TN 2 has the back of the stamp fluorescent [optical brightening agents!] and TN 1 is inert/dull!

The 4p in photogravure is supposed to exist only in TN 1 [line of AЯ vertical] or TN 3 [line of AЯ horizontal]. This is not correct!

to be continued ...

Just as with the 2p Sarmiento we have here the complication that since the definitives get printed in photogravure [1952 Evita peso values] there are TWO types of cylinder lay-outs!

- axis of the cylinder parallel to the short side of the stamp - printing lengthwise
- axis of the cylinder parallel to the long side of the stamp - printing across

The 2p Sarmiento however it started with the direction of printing U - flowing upwards! I.e. the axis of the photogravure cylinder being parallel to the short side of this stamp! In case of doctor blade flaws the lines run vertical!

This also goes for the 4p Hernandez although the years of uncoated paper is not relevant here as the 4p started in August 1965. Most of our 4p stamps have the direction of printing U!

Just as in the case of the 2p Sarmiento the majority of coated stamps have the direction of paper horizontally! This means in terms of Bardi - M [line of AЯ vertical, parallel to the long side of the stamp].

But as with the 2p Sarmiento at some point in time the durection of printing changed from U to L [ink flowing to the left]

to be continued ....

According to Bardi, the "m" has TN 3 or granulado









all direction of printing U! And asymmetrical paper wire structure!





to be continued ....

According to Bardi, the "m" has TN 3 or granulado









all direction of printing L! And Symmetrical paper wire structure! Hence granulado indeed!




to be continued ....

The 4p Hernandez with the line of AЯ horizontal has at least two different printings!

- with the direction of printing U - ink flowing upwards
- with the direction of printing L - ink flowing to the left

probably in this chronological order!

The fast majority of 4p stamps however have the line of AЯ vertical ! Out of my collection several hundreds of 4p stamps are with U, not quite 100 with L. Of the two versions above both some 15 copies.... hence not so common!

Which one is the "invisible" that Bardi suggests??

to be continued ....

The very common 4p with direction of printing U and direction of paper horizontal, Asymmetrical paper wire:





Plus two plate flaws on the same sheet position:





to be continued ...

The very common 4p with direction of printing U and direction of paper horizontal, Asymmetrical paper wire:





Plus two plate flaws on the same sheet position:





to be continued ...

The very common 4p with direction of printing U and direction of paper horizontal, Asymmetrical paper wire:





Plus one plate flaw:



to be continued ...

The very common 4p with direction of printing U and direction of paper horizontal, Asymmetrical paper wire:





Plus one plate flaw:



to be continued ...

Rein,
Please clarify for me: what´s U and L?
José

Otin escribió:Rein,
Please clarify for me: what´s U and L?
José

José,

direction of printing! The ink flows UP as seen from the individual stamp! Or the ink flowing to the LEFT.

Other options: R(ight) or D(own). The 50p JSM printed on the Goebel can have either U or D depending on how the cylinder was mounted in the press. I do not suppose the Goebel had double-width cylinders! The 5p Riqueza on the Goebel has both L and R!

saludos, Rein

CEFILOZA has the following options for the 4p!



Translating this to my findings:

880 = direction of paper horizontal, Asymmetrical paper wire, direction of printing either L [less common] or U [most common] = S-EN (01)
880 a= direction of paper vertical, Asymmetrical paper wire, direction of printing U [not so common] = S-EN (01)
880A = direction of paper vertical, Symmetrical paper wire, direction of printing L [not so common] = S-EN (02)

That Gomez does not recognize the directions of printing is not so strange. Outside the Netherlands only collectors in the UK [Machin collectors] have noticed this phenomenon! It was discovered in 1972 by Douglas Myall in the UK and somewhat later - but independently! - by Huig Tielman [1973] in the Netherlands what was generalized by me in close cooperation with Huig Tielman.

to be continued ...

Rein:
Unless Casa de Moneda used different sheets sizes U and L could have an explanation. Or a diffrent cylinder was used for U flowing of ink, i.e. one with long side stamps arranged paralell to the cylinder axis and the other one with the short side stamps paralell to that axis. For me what´s logical is that ink flows U or D if we consider the Mailander press accepts, for this
stamp sizes only one standard size. Remember this machine can print pliegos in two tete beche 100 stamps pane.
José

Otin escribió:Rein:
Unless Casa de Moneda used different sheets sizes U and L could have an explanation. Or a diffrent cylinder was used for U flowing of ink, i.e. one with long side stamps arranged paralell to the cylinder axis and the other one with the short side stamps paralell to that axis. For me what´s logical is that ink flows U or D if we consider the Mailander press accepts, for this
stamp sizes only one standard size. Remember this machine can print pliegos in two tete beche 100 stamps pane.
José

José,

see my remarks for the 5p Tierra del Fuego. In the case of the 4p everything was turned 90 degrees! The U-version was used in the first place since 1965 - there was no D[own] as there was no tête-bêche lay-out! The t-b lay-outs are often used to have a balance of ink on the cylinders! This procedure is still common in photogravure printing!!

saludos, Rein