El JSM 5c dispone de 2 tipos que hasta ahora no publicados ni se alistó.
Type I:
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_typeI_01.jpg)
Type II (since 1951?):
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_typeII_01.jpg)
Type I returned as it seems now in 1957 on Zárate blanco!
Tipo I volví como parece ahora en 1957 en blanco Zárate!
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_SO_asymm_ortho_mi_00.jpg)
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_SO_asymm_ortho_mi_02.jpg)
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_SO_asymm_ortho_mi_03.jpg)
![Imagen](http://www.galeoptix.nl/fila/argentina/thumbs/arg_1945_5c_jsm_offset_SO_asymm_ortho_mi_04.jpg)
Moderador: rubiera
rubiera escribió:
b. MI5 de 1951 es el 1L1
c. MI5 de 1956 me imagino que sera el 1L6 pero yo estoy muy flojo con los ultimos papeles asi que este se me queda para despues.
gracias, Bardi, por este libro.
tony
Tony,rubiera escribió:Rein,
Thanks, I was very unsure about this placement and I am not surprised that I am wrong. Does this mean that the 1956 mention does not belong with this paper?
----
Gracias, Rein, no me sorprende yo haber cometido este error. Entonces esto nos indica que la mencion de 1956 no pertence a este papel?
saludos
tony
Tony,Rubiera escribió: c. MI5 de 1956 me imagino que sera el 1L6 pero yo estoy muy flojo con los ultimos papeles asi que este se me queda para despues.
to be continued ....Rein - 26 Jan 2010 07:05 escribió:
The no watermarks group is subdivided into 3:
SF1, SF2 and SF3
There is no difference between SF1 and SF2! Had the "M' been defined as the "eje de enrollamiento" parallel to the long side and the "m" as parallel to the short side, we could have had just SF1 with either "M" or "m" as would have been done for all watermarked stamps
The paper without watermark stems from the Zárate paper mills and HENCE the difference with the so-called Zárate papers is gradual!!!! The observations to be made with the 1953 onwards paper types ought to be made with the no watermark AS WELL... Most of the no watermarks have been transposed "traspuesta".
There is no proof yet that the SF3 is different from the SF1/2; is it a matter of thickness that prevents us from seeing the symmetrical mesh [trama granulada]????
There is a probably calandered version [satinado] of the "no watermark" that may not come from the Zárate paper millls!
Mr Bardi used to call it Canadiense, but he can not prove it does originate from Canada
But a fact seems to be that there is another type of no watermark paper! We can call it Canadian or not, but it is just as questionable as the "mate lustroso"!
Mr Bardi surrendered to the "majority" of philatelists by dropping the term and notion of that type of paper. I think he made a mistake in doing so! I may be critical but in this case he deserves my "benefit of a doubt"
GOOGLE:
El grupo de marcas de agua no se subdivide en 3:
SF1, SF2 y SF3
No hay ninguna diferencia entre SF1 y SF2! Si el "M" se define como el "Eje de enrollamiento" paralela a la parte larga y la "m" como paralela al lado corto, que han tenido sólo SF1 ya sea con "M" o "m" como hubiera sido hecho por todos los sellos de marca de agua
El papel sin marca de agua proviene de las papeleras en Zárate y de ahí la diferencia con los llamados documentos de Zárate es gradual!!! Las observaciones que se hicieron con los tipos de documento de 1953 en adelante debe ser hecho con la marca de agua no también ... La mayoría de la marca de agua no han sido incorporadas "traspuesta".
No hay pruebas todavía de que el SF3 es diferente de la SF1/2, es una cuestión de grosor que nos impide ver la malla simétrica [trama Granulada ]????
Hay una versión probablemente calandrado [satinado] de la marca de agua "no" que no puede venir de la fábrica de papel Zárate!
Sr. Bardi llamábamos Canadiense, pero él no puede probar que se origina en Canadá
Pero un hecho parece ser que hay otro tipo de marca de agua no hay papel! Podemos llamarlo de Canadá o no, pero es tan discutible como la "Lustroso mate!"
Sr. Bardi se rindió a la "mayoría" de los filatelistas eliminando el término y la noción de que el tipo de papel. Creo que él hizo un error en hacerlo! Puedo ser crítico, pero en este caso que merece mi "beneficio de la duda"
dear José,Otin escribió:
Rein,
I´m reading your comments dated Jan.26 2010 re Bardi specialized catalog. For personal reasons I don´t have it yet but I would like you to tell me what is SF1, 2 & 3.
In the second paragraph you say "the paper without watermark seems to come from the Zárate paper mill". About this I would like to know where did you get this information because for the samples given to me by the Casa de Moneda paper without watermark used in 40ies was supplied by Baqués Parera, a paper merchant that also sold to the Casa de Moneda Celulosa's Zárate watermarked paper gummed (and calendered?) by him. But this was in 1953, whereas the unwatermarked paper he supplied was used in 1945/7. Its fibers were from wood and straw cellulose.
As to Canadian paper I baptized it with that name because is so different from Baqués's (I have no doubt it was made in some Argentine mill) after finding a notice in the Centro Filatelico de La Plata, Nº 25 journal, stating that (I translate it more or less literally) due to exhaustion of watermarked paper it would not be rare that starting in 1943 the stamps be printed on paper without watermark of Canadian origin, since a batch was acquired in Canada.
In my monography I call that paper sin filigrana sin trama (without wire mesh pattern) and started calling it Canadian when I read above notice and deducted, considering year of usage, that La Plata journal announced its appearance. This is my conclusion: what´s yours?
Have a nice weekend
The SF1/SF2 usually has a very smooth surface at the back and indents at the front - just like the ZA2 - Zárate with granulado of circa 1955! There are gradual versions of paper in which the granulado is strong with hardly any golden spots (pequeños puntos according to Dario Bardi) to lots of golden spots with hardly any granulado. I will not go into the idiomatic differences between "Grané", "grené" and "granulado" ....PAPELES MATES SIN FILIGRANA
Tipos de papeles
Se trata de grupo de papeles de origen nacional, mates y de calidad regular, salvo el satinado canadiense que como se verá al describirlo, que sería de ese origen.