Próceres y Riqueza volume I - small size offset-litho

[rubiera]

Right, its a 1c1E4, a nice stamp indeed. I am not sure I have one.

tony

[Rein]

Right, its a 1c1E4, a nice stamp indeed. I am not sure I have one.

tony

Tony,

Dario Bardi values it for $ 500! It must be scarce.....

[rubiera]

The Holandes 1E4 seems to be a paper with some rare printings (the 20c Large Format Cattle certainly is not a common stamp!).

tony

[Rein]

Javier.

Encontre estos sellos, no se si son los mismos que vos mostras, ya que no puedo determinar si el papel es o no el importado, lo que si puedo confirmar es que la filigrana es Lm, como podras ver en la imagen.





Saludos.

Horacio.

Este ultimo bloque es muy interesante. Me imagino que fue impreso con una faja fin de rodillo al reverso, en cuanto a la filigrana, es parecida a la del holandes, pero este es un sello cancelado en 1952...puede ocurrrir como uso filatelico de un sello emitido en 1939, pero quizas sea otro papel.

Con un escan de mas alta resolucion veremos mejor..

saludos

tony

Este ultimo bloque es muy interesante. Me imagino que fue impreso con una faja fin de rodillo al reverso, en cuanto a la filigrana, es parecida a la del holandes, pero este es un sello cancelado en 1952...puede ocurrrir como uso filatelico de un sello emitido en 1939, pero quizas sea otro papel.

Con un escan de mas alta resolucion veremos mejor..

saludos

tony

Ya los revisamos hoy con Bardi y finalmente es Papel importado con filigrana Rayos Rectos, nada fuera de lo normal.

Saludos.

Tony, Javier, Horacio,

iti s obvious from the scan of the back of the stamp that the Suns in the top row find themselves in the lower rows a lot LOWER positioned than the height of a stamp! I.e. more than 30.5mm hence rather 35mm.

This is the CARDINAL difference between the so-called rayos rectos and all the rest: 35mm instead of 30mm!

So it is indeed a rayos rectos!

Saludos, Rein

[Rein]

Candidates for the root block of the 1/2c Belgrano without watermark!







to be continued ....

[Rein]

Candidates for the root block of the 1/2c Belgrano without watermark!






to be continued ....

[Rein]

Candidates for the root block of the 1/2c Belgrano without watermark!








the same stamps have the lower left corner like this!



the dot between "Manuel" and "Belgrano" does NOT belong to the root block!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

The 3c Moreno grey is supposed to exist on 3 different papers - according to the 2008 Tabla-general:

- without watermark
- with wavy rays - "Rayado vertical"
- with straight rays - Rayos rectos"

and indeed we find 3 different types of paper: the clearly visible straight rays, the unwatermarked are easy enough to get established!

But how about the 3rd type of paper???? There is a third one - no doubt about - if only because of the horizontal direction of paper whilst all the others have a vertical direction of paper!

But in the column of the "rayado vertical" we only have the 1/2c Belgrano, the 1c Sarmiento, the 5c JSM, the 10c Rivadavia types III/IV and the 20c Torito - all in offset-litho. The 1c, 5c, 10c and 20c I have seen with "rayado vertical" only with a vertical direction of paper!

What about the 1/2c???? Was it still available in 1951??? What about the 3c Moreno grey???

My copies of the 3c with the 3rd type of paper are all from 1947!




This paper has a symmetrical wire! Unlike the real "rayado vertical" that has a asymmetrical paper wire.....

Anyhow, this type of paper has a very difficult to recognize structure {watermark, wire].

to be continued .....

[Rein]

Rein:

I find four types for this stamp, and need to verify two more:

top row is NGR,
bottom two rows are NOP






towards the top, 1E3 (I think you have identified which one already)
towards the bottom, 2C
I also found 2D and 1E4 but I need to check these again.



saludos

tony

Tony,

indeed we may split up the unwatermarked in a clearly visbile one and a hardly visible one. In both cases I think the paper is transposed (traspuesta).

In your scans I do not see the paper I was displaying - it is also transposed and reminds me of the 5c Moreno in typo on "mate lustroso". I do not have any 1E3 or 1E4 or 2D either, are we discussing the 3c Moreno or the 3c JSM????



to be continued ....

[Rein]

Hi, Rein:

3c Moreno only. I will verify the watermarks because I looked at these one year ago, before you helped me understand the papers better. The 3c Moreno was issued in 1943 and saw regular use until 1947/48. It should therefore be found on the 2D, 1E3b, 2C, NOP and NGR papers. The 1E4 seems to be a classification error on my part.

saludos

tony

Tony,

for those who do not have the codes at hand:

1E3c = "rayos ondulados de 1941 con malla simetrica en cruz" = Tela (2008 Tabla-General)
1E3b = "rayos ondulados de 1945/46 con malla asimetrica rectangular = Rayado Vertical (2008 Tabla-General).

I have not yet seen the 3c Moreno grey with 1E3b as the Tabla suggests. Your scans seem to point to the 1E3b:




What I have found as my third group is neither 1E3b nor 2D!

Rein

to be continued ...

[Rein]

I still have not seen any 3c Mariano Moreno in grey with the "rayado vertical"!!!! In the catalogues a 3c MM with "rayos ondulados" is mentioned as G'09 870 or 463I by M.T. The catalogue prices 0.40 mint, 0.10 used suggest it is a highly common stamp! But is it??????

Who can show me one! Scan of both the front and the back with the Multiple Sun + AЯ visible!!!

Acá van algunas imagenes del 3c. Mariano Moreno gris.
Filigrana RA Rayos Ondulados.

El tipo de papel según la clasificación de 2008 parece ser Mate Importado R.O. Rayado Vertical.

Pero no parece...

Por favor... ¿alguien puede confirmar que papel es este?

Adjunto fotos:

Here are some pictures of 3c. Mariano Moreno gray.
RA.Wavy Rays Watermark
The paper type as classified by 2008 seems to be Imported RO Mate "Rayado Vertical".
But it not seems to me ...

Please ... Can anyone confirm what paper is it?

CastañoOcre

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Las Fotos en cuestión:

De frente y posterior con diferentes grados de exposición, brillo y contraste.



3c Mariano Moreno, Gris. Papel mate imp. Rayos Ondulados / anverso 3



3c Mariano Moreno, Gris. Papel mate imp. Rayos Ondulados / anverso 2



3c Mariano Moreno, Gris. Papel mate imp. Rayos Ondulados / anverso 1



3c Mariano Moreno, Gris. Papel mate imp. Rayos Ondulados / Viñeta

CastañoOcre

Guillermo!

It looks OK.

Rayado Vertical or the parallel watermark with an asymmetrical paper mesh, the line of AЯ running parallel to the long side of the stamp, the directiobn of paper running parallel to the long side of the stamp as well ="M"!



The blue lines reflect the asymmetrical paper mesh, the black line the direction of paper!

In the original scan the coloured fibers are visible! The Rayado Vertical often has this! Also green fibers!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Los sellos que tengo con la trama en Rayado Vertical, en la viñeta del lado del frente observo que tienen un fino rayado diagonal (opaco) y otros no (esto se repite tambien en algunos otros sellos de PYRI),esto es a lo que se refiere Rein con lo simetrico?, tambien mando imagenes de sin filigrana con grene en paralelo al lado menor , mayor y de trama cerrada, este ultimo a la vista no se le ve ninguna marca de grene (es liso) y el dorso es mas de color blanco y distinto que los demas...saludos Tony,Rein y Otin....
javier

Javier,



A very symmetrical paper mesh with the direction of paper parallel to the long side of the stamps. No watermark!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Rayado Vertical or the parallel watermark with an asymmetrical paper mesh, the line of AЯ running parallel to the long side of the stamp, the directiobn of paper running parallel to the long side of the stamp as well ="M"!



The blue lines reflect the asymmetrical paper mesh, the black line the direction of paper!

In the original scan the coloured fibers are visible! The Rayado Vertical often has this! Also green fibers!

to be continued ...

Apart from the ascending watermark this is the same type of paper that Guillermo has!




to be continued ...

[Rein]

Dario Bardi sets the price for used copies on 0.10! Pettigiani on 2.00 which is more realistic! But still!

If he can provide me with 10 copies of it!? Balancing the price of the stamps and the costs of banking, postage and packaging!

to be continued ....