1967 20p José de San Martin

[Rein]

The 20p José de San Martin was issued on 15.05.1967. Printed in typography on the Goebel reel-fed press as one of the last stamps to be printed on that press [in use since 1931!].

According to all catalogues the 20p had been printed on coated paper only - tizado nacional manufactured by the Zárate paper mills.

[Rein]

Unknown so far had been the 20p JSM in typography on uncoated paper! So-called "mate national" .... The two stamps I knew that might have no coating at the front did indeed have NO coating at the front!!!

But having a closer look at the after the discovery of the 25p Quebracho and having a discussion with José Merlo about the watermarks of Zárate, I had a closer look at the gummed side. The 20p stamps have had the SAME background as the 25p! The coated side had been gummed as well!





The watermark reading from the back: RA instead of AЯ !!

[Rein]

Compare the 25p Quebracho:







We can expect a few more stamps of the 1966-1967 period that have Tizado Varioloso on the gummed side!

[Rein]

Consulto según vuestras apreciaciones.- Por lo que yo entiendo, sería Nº 411 b) MT - (Sobrecarga Tipo IV) - Gracias por las respuestas.- Juan Carlos -

Apparently there is still a lot unclear about how many 20p JSM official stamps do exist!

G.Jalil in his 2009 catalogue does mention 3 different stamps!

- overprint type XIII - 755 - with watermark "redondo"
- overprint type XIII - 755 - with watermark "CdM"
- overprint type XIV - 770 - reduced size 13mm

Does this help????

to be continued .....

[Rein]

Es la sobrecarga comun (VI), lamentablemente no la rara (IV). Por lo cual seria MT 411, o 411c dependiendo de la filigrana. Pero ademas tiene doble impresion del sello (bastante comun en este caso), que no esta catalogada en MT pero si en VK74 y en GJ.
jorgec

Hola JUANCA:
Tal como indica Jorge (jorgec) se trata de la sobrecarga más común. En esta podés encontrar la variedad de sobrecarga doble. Pero quiero mostrarte/les una variedad o doble impresión bastante piola:

Doble impresión de la sobrecarga.

Esta sobrecarga fue impresa en offset, pero podemos observar que hay una segunda impresión en huecograbado.



Por lo tanto, no deja de ser una linda sorpresa.
Yo poseo un cuadro y una sueltita, ambas piezas nuevas. Tal vez si buscan... puedan encontrar más.
Esto no está catalogado!!!
Suerte amigos.
Fredy

Gracias Jorge y Fredy.- Ahora, digo yo, me cuesta ver la doble impresión del sello, aparentemente se nota mas en las letras de "correos".- ¿Cómo distinguir entonces una doble impresión con offset y huecograbado? "Tendrán que pasar muchos sellos antes mis ojos, antes de poder distinguir claramente sus peculiaridades" Saludos a todos.-
JUANCA

Fredy does not give much relief, but adds to the confusion by suggesting that an overprint had been applied by photogravure!

Still we do not really know which of the 3 stamps G. Jalil lists is involved here!

to be continue....

[Rein]

Es cierto JUANCA. Hay que ejercitar el ojo, no queda otra. Tambien hay que tener en cuenta algunos conceptos básicos sobre impresiones.
Para este caso en particular, la diferencia radica en que la impresión en offset es plana, plena sobre la superficie del sello. En cambio, la de huecograbado es en sobrerelieve (aunque en la imagen no se nota) y se presenta como puntos en diagonales.

A continuación repito la imagen con los puntos mencionados:



Puntos de la sobrecarga en huecograbado.

Espero quede mas claro el tema.
Saludos.
Fredy

Fredy:
Ahora sí vi la impresión en huecograbado. Nunca hubiera sospechado de su existencia pues nunca la había visto en negro. En el scan anterior me parecía que era tinta del matasellos pero con este nuevo no quedan lugar a dudas. Lo que me motiva una pregunta: ¿en que sellos se usó ese tipo de impresión de la sobrecarga aparte del 1 peso Ganadería en azul?
Nito

Fredy enhances his suggestion of photogravure by adding an adapted scan!

The irregular positions of the assumed photogravure cells make it very unlikely that photogravure is involved at all...

to be continued ....

[Rein]

One of my first postings referred to this stamp!

Subject: The San Martin set in offset-litho and typography

Of the San Martin series the 2, 4, 8 and 10p are mentioned in the catalogue of mr. Tello Meggia having been printed both in offset-litho and in typography . Similarly the article of Mr. J. Holler on the PyR II+III. I was wondering whether I had overlooked something that involved the 20p.

Today I received the excellent book by mr. J.R. Merlo about the printing methods for postage stamps in general and for Argentinean stamps in particular. He shows a lot of stamps that exist both in offset-litho and in typography including the here mentioned series. But again no 20p!!!!

The 20p Jose San Martin in offset-litho:



details:

offfset-litho:



typography:

The overprint - in fact NO overprint but a second colour for the offset-litho printed bicoloured stamp - is referred to by Victor Kneitschel and Guillermo Jalil as type XIV!

N.B. the centre of the "O" is round / circular not upright elliptical as in type XIII!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

The two types of "overprint" with the wrong chronology!

Type IV first:



Type XIII later!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

In Dario Bardi's second book on the PyR definitves he does list the official stamps but somehow the listing is not quite accurate alas..

Type XIV - GJ 770 has TN 1
Type XIII - GJ 755 has both TN 1 and TN 3
Type XIII - GJ 756 has just TN 1

It is obvious that the GJ 756 has the TCM paper with the Casa de Moneda watermark!

GJ 770 having the Rayado Horizontal with a fluorescent front and a neutral back [F/N] is certainly wrong! It should have been TN 2 - granulado... I will not say anything about the luminescence as all my copies are used....

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIV with strong serifs and a circular round 'O":







Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIV with strong serifs and a circular round 'O":









Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!

Note the Tizado Varioloso that has an enormous impact on the black print!

And also note the wide corrective perforation teeth at the top!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIV with strong serifs and a circular round 'O":









Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!

Note the Tizado Varioloso that has an enormous - destructive - impact on the black print!

And also note the wide corrective perforation teeth at the top!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIII with small, triangular serifs and an elliptical 'O":









Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIII with small, triangular serifs and an elliptical 'O":









Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Type XIII with small, triangular serifs and an elliptical 'O":









Clearly a symmetrical paper wire!


to be continued ...