Stinnes paper used in 1942!

[Rein]

Gente adquiri estos dos sellos que para mi son regrosos, por un lado el mate (raro) del MT 1744, que salio en su mayoria tizado (encapado), en el catalogo de GJ esta clasificado como 2452A, y el segundo, sellaso!!!encontre el Estrada con papel Holandes (Granulado Vertical), rarisimo de hallar en este papel ya que en su mayoria se lo encuentra en papel ingles tipo Tela, y lo bueno que trae fecha en el matasello para poder estudiar en que tiempo salieron ambos papeles, en otro post pondre bien las diferencias para distuinguir ambos papeles con escaneo de ambas filigranas....saludos....y va con graficooooo!!!!

javier

Discoveries can still be made!

The 1942 Estrada stamp and the 20c Ganaderia [Toro] issue done month later have a peculiar sheet lay-out of 152, 8 rows of 19 stamps with the stamps on positions 1 and 20 replaced by something else!

[Rein]

Hola

Los dos medallones que aparecen impresos en la esquina superior izquierda de los pliegos del Toro grande (20 cts), siempre han sido muy populares entre los filatelistas y las parejas de sello+medallón suelen alcanzar precios elevados.


Toro.med.20c.jpg (43.7 KiB) Viewed 7 times

¿Cuál es la razón de haber impreso estos medallones en 2 espacios del pliego y no haber aprovechado de incluír en ellos 2 sellos, que mal que mal, es lo que a correos le genera ingresos?

Saludos


Jorge,

Jorge,

Victor Kneitschel [1958 vol 1, pages 404-405] refers to the size of the sheets - both for the 20c Toro [20.08.1942] and the J.M. Estrada [13.07.1942]:

Estrada:

Impreso en hojas de 150 sellos, distribuidos en 152 casillas: 8 hileras horizontales de 19, llevando los Nos 1 y 20 el medaillón.

Toro:

La mayoria de los Nos 580 y 582 fué impresa en hojas de 100 sellos. Una cantidad limitada se imprimío en hojas de 150 sellos distribuidos en 152 casillas: 18 hileras horizontales de 19, llevando las casillas 1 y 20 el medaillón.

Why should the Casa de Moneda have done such thing???

Instead of sheets of 200 print only those of 150??? They needed to use up a pile of smaller printing sheets and hence had to reduce the sheet size. It can also [?] explain the use of papel Holandés for the 20c!

[Rein]

Kneitschel made a typo here....

But following Sergio:

Hola queria abrir este post para empecza a mostrarles las variedades que tengo que no estan catalogadas y que pude comprobar que se repiten más de una vez.

MT 420b



MT420b (Variedad con Raya en REPU)



*** SARCOSIS ***

8 [not 18 VK] * 19 = 152 so we have 2 empty positions!

No 1 is the first stamp of the 1st row, no 20 is the first stamp of the second row [we have rows 19 stamps long!]

The illustrations make it more clear! Thanks to Sergio and Jorge!

Kneitschel refers only to a flaw in stamp 21 of plate 2B. The "T"and the "I" of "Argentina" are joined!

[Rein]

Why should the Casa de Moneda have done such thing???

Instead of sheets of 200 print only those of 150??? They needed to use up a pile of smaller printing sheets and hence had to reduce the sheet size. It can also [?] explain the use of papel Holandés for the 20c!

Thanks to Javier we now know it is not just the 20c having the 1E4 but also the Estrada stamp!!!

[Rein]

Como puse en otro post, descubri este sellaso que es rarisimo y distinto al comun en papel Ingles tipo "tela", puse las caracteristicas de este papel, mas los datos del matasello con que salio circulado, interesante el tiempo de aparicion de un papel con el otro; la procedencia de este papel??????.....esta en estudio, han surgido datos que no es holandes como se venia diciendo, sino Aleman y proveniente de la compañia Hugo Stinnes ltda......y este seria el sello (teoria mia) con que me comprueba el fin del periodo de este papel (1928-1942),despues de este año todavia no he sabido que saliese otro sello con este papel......ya habra mas informaciones para este boletin!!!!!.....Rein espero que el escaneo de la filigrana se pueda ver bien y te agradesco por tus felicitaciones.....saludos.....
javier

Javier,

this is very strange!!!!!

In all the other stamps [of this size] of the watermark the renglon de AЯ is parallel to the short side of the stamp! So it is in the 20c Toro with the same sheet lay-out and Holandés!

Can you get a higher resolution scan of the watermark??? 1200dpi or more? And place the scan in a file on your hard disk not in your MS Word!

As to the orientation of the watermark the Estrada sheet could be complementary to those of the Toro! We'll have to drawn a schema!

Saludos, Rein

[Rein]

Rein, te mando la imagen del Estrada papel "Aleman-Stinnes", me costo mucho trabajo y es lo mejor que pude hacer, al mirar bien detenidamente el sello observe que el sol es mas grande y redondo, las letras mas alargadas y tocan los bordes del sol, mientras que los del lado menor son mas chicos,ovalados, contornos mas finos y las letras no tocan los bordes del sol, el sello 361 y 362 LM y el 420 LM, los demas sellos de este tamaño son Lm, el 361 y 362 son distintos al 420 en cuanto a la trama, bueno Rein fijate que podes observar, espero que te ayude e hice lo imposible...lo hice como vos me dijistes....a 1200...saludos...
javier

Rein, I send the image of Estrada paper "German-Stinnes" cost me a lot of work and is the best I could do well to look closely at the label notice that the sun is larger and rounder, more elongated letters and touch the edges of the sun, while the lower side are smaller, oval finest contours and the letters do not touch the sides of the sun, the seal 361 and LM 362 and LM 420, the other hallmarks of this size are Lm, the 361 and 362 to 420 are different in terms of plot, good that you can observe fijate Rein, hope you help and did the impossible ... like you did to me .... you said 1200 ... greetings ...
Javier

Sergio, que bueno que volviste!!!!para vos tambien va esta imagen, espero que ayude ,me costo el escaneo, vere mejorar la tecnica para definicion de 1200...saludos y espero verte...
javier



DEFINICION EN 1200

Javier,

I have no doubt about what you have found! I was just hoping you might get a better scan! This is a 1E4 or Stinnes paper! No doubt! It got unnoticed as the renglon of AЯ is parallel to the long side of the stamp for the 1E3c or Tela as well.

Congratulations!

Saludos, Rein

[Rein]

Compare the Wiggins Teape watermark with density 24/22 - the so-called Tela:

[Rein]

The direction of paper of the Estrada stamp on Dutch paper is horizontal!!!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

The different placing of the medaillion implies a different plate used for this stamp!

to be continued ....

[Otin]

Rein,
Do you agree that it is Estrada with Stinnes paper? Unfortunately I can´t see the whole scan to appreciate the whole image of the stamp in question. Also I can`t meet Javier to show me the stamp as i`m unable to leave home as my wife fell down and broke her knee. However it`s very strange the usage of Stinnes paper in a 1943 issued stamp. Hope to hear from yot.
José

[Rein]

Rein,
Do you agree that it is Estrada with Stinnes paper? Unfortunately I can´t see the whole scan to appreciate the whole image of the stamp in question. Also I can`t meet Javier to show me the stamp as i`m unable to leave home as my wife fell down and broke her knee. However it`s very strange the usage of Stinnes paper in a 1943 issued stamp. Hope to hear from yot.
José

José,

Javier's scan is good enough for me! Yes it is a granulado vertical! Hence seen the size of the sun it should be Stinnes!

saludos, Rein

[patagonian]

Reviewing old albums, I think I found one of the dutch-paper Estrada!
Don't you?

Estrada_holades.jpg

Regards,
Néstor
[/color]

[Rein]

Reviewing old albums, I think I found one of the dutch-paper Estrada!
Don't you?

Estrada_holades.jpg

Regards,
Néstor
[/color]

Nestor,

as far as I can see the direction paper = horizontal = this is the Stinnes/Dutch watermark!

saludos, Rein

from a rainy Krakow in Poland

[patagonian]

Thank you, Rein.
Yes, the direction is clearly horizontal. And very different to the gainy normal paper.
Regards,
Néstor.

[Rein]

Thank you, Rein.
Yes, the direction is clearly horizontal. And very different to the gainy normal paper.
Regards,
Néstor.

Nestor,

it is a good thing when more people find these things! Otherwise, people will not believe it exists! I still hope that more people will find the Argentina stamps with blue and brown fibres!

saludos, Rein