D.A. Bardi - PyRII Catálogo especializado de sellos postales

[Rein]

I have just received my copy of the new P&R II Catálogo especializado de sellos postales written by D.A. Bardi and published just a few weeks before his untimely death.

It is the first publication about these definitives that gives us an overview of all variants both design wise and as to types of paper! It is a logical sequence to the Catalogue of the first P&R series! Using the same terms and codes where possible makes it a splendid starting point for the unification of classifcations and of course for further study.

I made a long sequel of postings in commenting the P&R I book and I will certainly do this again for this book. However, what I started two years ago opened a way for riposting my comments both by the author and other Foristos... Now, for obvious reasons, I shall try to make comments in a less direct way and still hope for other Foristos to take up the challenge and counter what I will write here. It will be meant to be constructive and offering a supplement to what has been written in the book!



to be continued...

[Rein]

This series of defiinitives encompassing face values issued in the period 1954-1974 is a muixture of several smaller, short-running sets of definitives that could be described each separately for its postal, economical or political motives! That would have been more scientifical and this is what should happend someday but it would not help the general collector much...

How to explain the various face values of 20c, 1p or 2p, etc?? The 2p of the Eva Peron Foundation is probably replaced just out of politcal reasons! But the 1p Caballo or 1p Ganaderia???? Explaining and describing this all would have added another 5-10 pages to the book!

And why not take all the stamps issued under the law of 1969:

"Por ley 18.188 dictada el 5 de abril de 1969 se convierten los valores monetarios argentinos de cien a uno y se da comienzo a la nueva línea de billetes con vigencia a partir del primero de enero de 1970."

Crossing out 2 zeroes so 100p => 1p and 1p => 1c, etc.

to be continued ...

[Rein]

The P&R I Catalogue did not mention the Servicio Oficial! In the present P&R II Catalogue we find a listing on the final pages of the book! The way of presenting this listing reminds us of the listing in Pettigiani's book! Just a table no prices! What does complicate the matter here is the variety of how Servicio Oficial had been phrased, the use of serifs etc... It follows the Göttig-Jalil listings and does not refer to the method of printing used!


As a general remark, I would say that the catalogue listings are TOO close to the GJ listing for the "normal"stamps as well. Except for one or two cases, it TOO closely follows GJ! Instead of even mentioning the differences - shades of colour - it just lists the sub-numbers of GJ for the 80c Trigo/Wheat for instance.... Or it does not introduce a non-catalogado where it should have! The 40c JSM in sheet-fed typography which forms a straight analogy to the two versions of the 10c Rivadavia in red [GJ 797, 798] and GJ 1040 should be split up in TWO in the same way!! A missed chance ...

to be continued ...

[Rein]

The overlap in time - P&R I (1935-1961) and P&R II (1954-1974) - makes it impossible to not use the same codes for the same types of papers! At least that is what we might expect!

As to the imported papers MI 5 [ = rayado vertical in the P&R I book] was in use for the definitives in 1956 still and way before the Argentina philately had discovered mate importado duro in contrast to mate inportado blando!

The 50c Port of B.A. [19.03.1956] and the 80c Wheat [12.01.1955] were printed on MI 5!!! Not MI 8!!! Should there be a difference in papers than we should have had the MI 8 introduced already in the P&R I book.....

Later on, we indeed see the juxtaposition of MI 8 and MI 9 and we may wonder why!!! But that was in the 1960-ies after the introduction of the Kupferschmidt paper!

Why repeating the TI 3 - TI 6 and the ZA 1- ZA 4??? They do occur both in P&R I and in P&R II !! New is ZA 5 as indeed in 1964 we have a remarkable new feature to the otherwise very confusing Zárate papers... A set of lines to be seen from the back of the stamps parallel to the direction of paper...

The introduction of coated paper in Zárate in 1963 makes it necessary to introduce a new category! TN = Tizado Nacional divided in three sub-codes:
- TN 1 rayado horizontal F/N
- TN 2 rayado horizontal F/F
- TN 3 granulado vertical F/F

while F denotes the presence of optical brightening agents - either in the coating and/or in the paper itself; F/N then only in the coating, F/F then both in the coating and in the paper!

The main complaint I have here - and that is mostly due to the author not reading this Foro! - is the complete denial of the Tizado Varioloso, the so obvious presence of hundreds of tiny holes in the coating surface! This TV was not just a coincidental phenomenon like the "filigrana raya" or the "invisible" in the uncoated Zárate papers! It was a constant factor during TWO years or more! All coated stamps with Zárate papers issued in 1966 has it!!!

On the whole, the overemphasis on the Zárate papers and its coincidental or not always stated varieties it produced is striking!

"Filigrana raya" may be popular among the collectors of P&R II and the invisible watermark with its higher price may even attract more collectors! The Zárate watermark is NOT the easiest one to recognize, but to blow up one's inexperience in finding the watermark to a highly profitable feature is overdoing it.....

to be continued...

[Rein]

The code of TN is not quite what I had expected! TZA for Tizado Zárate might have been more plausible!

TSF is SF with a coating [tizado] and indeed we get TSF 1 and TSF 2 whilst 1 is for "rayado" and 2 for "granulado" . Both with OBA' s in the coating and NOT in the paper itself - F/N!

The watermark "Casa de Moneda" in coated paper with its abbreviation TCM occursonly in three stamps! The 50c Puma, 5P Tierra del Fuego and the 100p Bariloche.... But also in the 20c Llama and the 20p JSM with S.O. Both stamps do no occur without the S.O.!!! Strange enough, the 20p JSM does NOT feature in the S.O. Table!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

It can get even worse!


The 20c Llama with S.O. on TCM paper does not exist!!!



And it was the only one mentioned as such in the Table!

Clear enough we need a NEW category: ZCM

that is uncoated Zárate paper with the Casa de Moneda watermark!










to be continued .....

[juso]

Si Rein, tenes razon, no es un tizado, es un Zarate con filigrana Casa de Moneda, donde la trama tiene un fino rayado paralelo al RA, no se si estaras de acuerdo conmigo, pero seria como el Zarate rayado + filigrana Casa de Moneda, no se como se le escapo a Dario!!!!, no me imagino el teniendo un tizado de CM y no este Zarate, vere como se puede corregir, pero estoy totalmente de acuerdo, a simple vista es un Zarate...Rein observa el sello si no tiene simetria, yo observe el frente bien a la luz y me muestra el rayado, pero al rotarlo tambien me muestra lineas simetricas....saludos...
javier


If Rein, you're right, not a chalking is a watermarked Zarate Mint, where the plot has a thin striped parallel to the RA, not if you will agree with me, but it would be like scratching + filigree Zarate Mint not as he escaped to Dario !!!!, I can not imagine having a chalking of the CM and not this Zarate, can vere as correct, but I totally agree, at first glance is a Zarate ... Rein look at the label if it has no symmetry I see the front light well and shows me scratching, but also rotate symmetrical lines shows me .... greetings ...
Javier

[Rein]

Si Rein, tenes razon, no es un tizado, es un Zarate con filigrana Casa de Moneda, donde la trama tiene un fino rayado paralelo al RA, no se si estaras de acuerdo conmigo, pero seria como el Zarate rayado + filigrana Casa de Moneda, no se como se le escapo a Dario!!!!, no me imagino el teniendo un tizado de CM y no este Zarate, vere como se puede corregir, pero estoy totalmente de acuerdo, a simple vista es un Zarate...Rein observa el sello si no tiene simetria, yo observe el frente bien a la luz y me muestra el rayado, pero al rotarlo tambien me muestra lineas simetricas....saludos...
javier


If Rein, you're right, not a chalking is a watermarked Zarate Mint, where the plot has a thin striped parallel to the RA, not if you will agree with me, but it would be like scratching + filigree Zarate Mint not as he escaped to Dario !!!!, I can not imagine having a chalking of the CM and not this Zarate, can vere as correct, but I totally agree, at first glance is a Zarate ... Rein look at the label if it has no symmetry I see the front light well and shows me scratching, but also rotate symmetrical lines shows me .... greetings ...
Javier

Javier,

I will have to look at my used copies as it is not so simple to judge the symmetry with mint copies as the gum is keeping away the details!

saludos, Rein

[Rein]

To establish whether the wire is symmetrical or not is not so easy! The scans give some idea but are not conclusive!









You may even say the wire is symmetrical!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

For the multiple Sun + RA watermark it is somewhat easier!

Asymmetrical:





Symmetrical:






Alas, in the Catalogo the symmetrical version has not been recognized!! The catalogue listings only have the rayado (asymmetrical) version


to be continued ....

[Rein]

The confusion about what is Rayado and what is Granulado in the Zárate papers is a long lasting!

Subject: Documentos del Círculo de Coleccionistas de PyR

If you read the 2008 Clasificacion carefully and wrestle yourself through the words you will find that there is still a lot to be studied and that only the main division "rayado vertical" and "granulado" does make some sense! In my terms "asymmetrical paper mesh" and "symmetrical paper mesh". This goes for the whole period 1954-196X. Even the reference for the Rayado blanco is not clean: the 1959 Red Cross is on both groups of paper!

In order to be able to make paper with an asymmetrical paper mesh you need to have a sieve that has the twill structure! To have the symmetrical one as well you need a second paper machine ..... Could Zarate afford that in the period concerned? Did they produce paper for the Newspapers??? Or experiment with newspaper paper made a little bit thicker? Are we really talking about paper coming from Zarate????

GOOGLE:

Si usted lee cuidadosamente el 2008 Clasificacion y luchar a ti mismo a través de las palabras que usted encontrará que todavía hay mucho que estudiar y que sólo la división principal "rayado vertical" y "granulado" tiene algún sentido? En mis términos "malla de papel asimétrica" y de "malla de papel simétrico". Esto va para todo el período 1954-196x. Incluso la referencia para el Rayado blanco no está limpia: no hay 1959 de la Cruz Roja está en ambos grupos de papel!

Con el fin de ser capaz de hacer papel con una cinta de malla asimétrica es necesario tener un tamiz que tiene la estructura de sarga! Para que la simetría, así que necesita una máquina de papel segunda ..... Zárate podría permitirse el lujo de que en el período en cuestión? ¿Se producen papel para los diarios??? O experimento con papel de periódico hecho un poco más grueso? ¿Realmente estamos hablando de papel procedentes de Zárate????

4.1. Zárate Rayado Horizontal - Zárate Rayado Paralelo
Aparece en 1953 y se caracteriza por una trama cerrada y poco visible que presenta del lado de la goma un rayado de líneas gruesas, paralelas al renglón de RA aunque ligeramente inclinadas. Este rayado también se observa desde el frente (dato que es
muy útil para el historiador postal), solo que a veces es marcado y otras apenas perceptible. El papel es delgado o mediano. Como ejemplo de sellos donde se ha utilizado este tipo de papel exclusivamente podemos citar los conmemorativos 543 o el 544 del Catálogo y los de la serie de Eva Perón 517a, 521b y 524a (excluimos el 519b y el 520b porque si bien aparecen en este papel, también fueron emitidos en el papel que se describe en 4.2).

Se presentan dos variantes .Una que se trata de un papel muy grueso, tipo cartón y otra que llamamos filigrana raya que consiste en una raya continua en la filigrana sol RA que cruza toda la hoja de la plancha (y en consecuencia de los sellos que afecta), en forma perpendicular al renglón de RA. Conviene apuntar que es posible encontrar más de una de estas rayas en las hojas en forma simultánea y aún entrecruzadas y/o en bordes de hoja (las más raras). En la tabla de los mates nacionales que consta más adelante, se individualizan con llamadas los sellos donde aparecen estas variantes.

4.2. Zárate Grené
Posee una trama abierta de gránulos con forma de rombos, muy visibles y definidos (de ahí lo de grené), que presentan un eje mayor perpendicular al renglón de RA. El papel es de espesor delgado o mediano. Una característica destacada del sol es que
los rayos generalmente son cortos y no se tocan con los del sol adyacente. Para ejemplificar, dentro de los conmemorativos podemos tomar como referencia el sello Nº 559 del Catálogo

Presenta una variante que se individualiza como papel cebolla, debido a que se trata de un papel muy delgado y casi transparente. Los sellos de la serie donde se ha encontrado hasta ahora esta variante son los 512Y, 512YA y el 381Y. Recomendamos no confundir este papel con uno delgado, el cebolla es extremadamente delgado. Cabe realizar aquí una aclaración importante. Independientemente del Grené que hemos descripto hasta aquí, desde unos años antes de su aparición y contemporáneamente con él, se utilizó un grupo de varios papeles granulados de trama cerrada y gránulos poco visibles (características estas que aparecen en mayor o menor medida según el caso), que actualmente son objeto de investigación, razón por la cual y por ahora los hemos incluido con el Zárate Grené que estamos describiendo, aunque la trama granular sea distinta . Respecto de estos papeles puede agregarse que presentan ejemplares con filigrana raya (ver descripción en 4.1) y que los mismos se individualizan en la tabla con una llamada. Un dato interesante que podemos agregar es que todos los sellos en formato grande consignados para este papel en la tabla fueron emitidos en el Grené que hemos descripto al principio y los que son en formato chico lo han sido en los papeles granulados del grupo que está en estudio.

4.3. Zárate Blanco Rayado
Este papel se usó en la serie a partir de 1957. Presenta una trama muy particular, con un rayado paralelo al renglón de RA predominante y un ligero granulado perpendicular al RA. El espesor es mediano, de apariencia suave al tacto y muy compacto y opaco, con una goma clara amarillenta que no altera la tonalidad blancuzca del papel (de ahí lo de Zárate Blanco). Por esta razón hay que tener especial cuidado en no confundir el Zárate Blanco con un mate importado cuya goma puede ser similar (la diferencia hay que buscarla en las características del sol, que mantiene las de todos los Zárate, tal como se describió al comienzo de este capítulo). Como sello de referencia tenemos el No 601 del Catálogo.

In the new catalogue the reference stamp for ZA 3 is STILL that Red Cross stamp! I pointed out more than 2 years ago that this was WRONG!!

Considering that ZA 1 lasted only shortly in 1953-1955 we can tell which stamps of the P&R II are involved. All other stamps are suspect! The number of stamps with ZA 3 is also very much restricted! And should probably not go beyond the 1957-1959 period!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

Introducing ZA 3 and ZA 4 in 1957 was obvious for the whiter paper of some stamps printed in offset-litho: 1c and the 10c of the P&R I series.. Now the 5c Hernanez and the 20c Brown join them!

But for other stamps, printed in photogravure or recess, not the same paper was used!!!

The 2p, 2p20 and 4p40 in photogravure were normally printed on ZA2 [granulado] but in the catalogue we also find the same paper turned 90 degrees in the printing press with the code ZA 4 [granulado as well, but whiter?]!

Nothing more white!

to be continued ....

[Rein]

ZA 5 is a version of a Zárate paper with long lines that can be seen at the back of stamps, lines parallel to the direction of paper!

It was first introduced by the CEFILOZA Catalogo Gz as

(08) Zárate Combinado, (Z. C.'64); Filig.: Sol RA 9,0x8,5 mm; Rayado paralelo a la filigrana y ocacionales rayas
perpendiculares. Grueso y duro, opaco y algo poroso.

for the 1964.01.25 IV Festival Nacional del Folklore.

Hence the '64 in the description!

But as we can see in the scan of the 4p JSM in offset-litho:



this type of paper was already in use in 1963!!! Several of July 1963, one even of April 12th...

The occasional perpendicular lines - orthogonal to the line of AЯ - are always present in a number of 2 or more in a stamp! I wonder how to tell them apart from the "filigrana raya" ?!

to be continued ...

[Rein]

Clearly visible lines:








Asymmetrical paper wire!



to be continued ....

[Rein]

Having commented the uncoated Zárate papers in general it is time to get to the individual face values!

Let's start with the 5c Hernandez!

Issued 28.10.1957! So we may expect ZA 3 and ZA 4!

According to the Catalogo we have:

with the direction of paper horizontal vertical without S.O.: ZA 2 The S.O. version is supposed to have ZA 3!







and

with the direction of paper vertical without S.O.: ZA 4 . The S.O. version is supposed to have ZA 2 !!.














All have a symmetrical paper wire!! So no ZA 3!!!

to be continued ...